Author Topic: Responsible Botting...  (Read 40543 times)

Renegade

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Responsible Botting...
« on: April 08, 2014, 03:54:06 AM »
A lot of people are vehemently against bots in any form. It seems a bit silly to me as it's just not possible to stop bots, so it might be better to simply figure out what makes sense.

At the moment we have a situation where at least 1 botter is controlling parts of the map to the detriment of the game. To me, this seems like hunting on a piece of land until every animal has become extinct there, or fishing until there are no more fish in the lake. Eventually you're going to starve...

The fact is that it is possible to completely usurp the map and drive out all players. This would certainly kill the game and drive the price of HUC to zero, which would result in miners abandoning Huntercoin. i.e. There has to be some kind of a balance between what makes sense for botters, and how botters can leave room for human players to play and enjoy the game.

Now, what that balance is, I don't really know, but I do know that it doesn't make sense for 1 botter (or a small number of players/botters) to dominate the game to the point that it isn't fun for anyone else.

On the other hand, I also think that it could be very profitable for botters to prey on other botters in order to maintain a kind of balance that would draw in more players and result in a better game.

spokanebitcoinmine

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2014, 06:24:34 PM »
all the bots that are in the game are fine its the ones that kill you like bgbt bots that track you for anything more than .96 of a coin i have been playing since day 1 and the game is def fading and the game is no longer fun to play when your getting killed with 1.6 coins by bgbt bots..... bots are fine but lock down an area and let the rest of the players have some coins to .... the sheer fact that people are flooding the game with bots and not giving a shit about the real people who support the game is complete bullshit... its like they have the cheat codes to the game and we have to just sit and deal with it and keep pumping money into something with a close to nothing return now ..... people with the bots need to step back and try to play the game against what they have created and they will so understand how fucked it is to have your asshole bots all over the board pick a pocket and protect that but allow the players to have some part of the map where they can play without being tracked and assassinated with close to no coins the bgb bots are everywhere so much for responsible botting people like the ones in the middle and the ones who rape all other players for .96 coins is fucked how are we supposed to fight back when we actually have to control all our guys without the computer making moves for us.... if you want this coin to grow you cant monopolize it u have to allow others to enjoy and believe in it to..... but with assholes trolling the board on every color makes the game worthless to the people who you need it to matter most to the people with all the bitcoin willing to pump it into this game but not with the fuck sticks running the board the way it is now me and most everyone else will spend our btc on something more worth while until people start to realize the bots are nice but its us as the people who control the price and the value has dropped 30x since bots were introduced.... the value used to be .0035 now .00031 big difference hopefully people will pull their heads out their asses and work as a community not a back stabbing bitch fest of asshole bots running the board chasing out all new players and human players to the point to where the board is over run by bots and the only people that will be playing are the ones who got the bot compiling to work and fuck the rest of us .... pretty fucked up when someone has to bring all the card to the table to possible get a new view on how to make this coin worth something i wont even tell anyone about it cuz of the fucked bots controlling the map why advertise a system thats broken ..... so if your like me and cant stand the bullshit that has flooded that game lets work together to make the game more fun for everyone ....... with that being said i hope someone realizes something needs to change so that this coin doesn't become just a fart in the wind like the path that its on 

BGB

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 11:05:51 PM »
Here is my viewpoint.

I have two flavors of BGB bots running in the game right now. BGBT and BGBC. They make up only 1-2% of the generals. A couple of weeks ago the attack thresholds of these bots were 4-5 HUC based on the value of the tile or character. My ROI was pretty good but the game has changed in the last couple of weeks with more aggressive game play and organizations taking control of certain areas of the game.

Even though I only have 1-2% of the generals, I am also being heavily targeted, which is perfectly fine and I expect it. Of course I could easily start changing the bots name, coding in more evasive maneuvers etc... but I am okay with getting attacked, that is part of the game. With this my ROI has dropped significantly and I have compensated by lowering the attack threshold.

It is true a couple days ago I set a group of them at .95 because I wanted to shut down those bots and get rid of them and start fresh with some updates.

spokanebitcoinmine

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2014, 12:38:33 AM »
it must be nice to not have to play ... ive have tried multiple times to compile your system and all i get are snood remarks just kinda makes the community feel shotty im cool with the bots just makes it really hard when your just trying to play to make 20 30 huc a day and the roi is shit for us real players now that we cant even run with .96 of a coin

Mithril Man

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2014, 01:05:59 AM »
it must be nice to not have to play ... ive have tried multiple times to compile your system and all i get are snood remarks just kinda makes the community feel shotty im cool with the bots just makes it really hard when your just trying to play to make 20 30 huc a day and the roi is shit for us real players now that we cant even run with .96 of a coin

use my client, you can avoid a lot of troubles and take advantages over bots, if played smart
anyway i'll add bot support too in the future, so you won't have problems with compiling stuffs, etc..

i think bot are stimulating, as a programmer prospective, i wish i could have time to do that but i focused on client, bot programming was by far a more profictable thing but i've chosen to invest in community (sounds like talking about charity lol)
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zy0n

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2014, 03:51:10 AM »
it must be nice to not have to play ... ive have tried multiple times to compile your system and all i get are snood remarks just kinda makes the community feel shotty im cool with the bots just makes it really hard when your just trying to play to make 20 30 huc a day and the roi is shit for us real players now that we cant even run with .96 of a coin


Dude the bot was compiled and uploaded explicitly upon your request by BGB well over 12 days ago. Why are you still complaining. I've had characters with well over .96 coin return to base with no issues.
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spokanebitcoinmine

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2014, 09:14:45 AM »
where i didnt see a link was it the one where he said if you are feeling risky?

spokanebitcoinmine

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2014, 09:18:04 AM »
and im complaining because i have to micro manage every damn player with anything over .96 of a con and if i dont dead instantly and so have i when i get coins in the base :P

zy0n

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2014, 09:30:57 AM »
where i didnt see a link was it the one where he said if you are feeling risky?
Yes, that's the one.

and im complaining because i have to micro manage every damn player with anything over .96 of a con and if i dont dead instantly and so have i when i get coins in the base :P
I used his bot to gather while I've been completing my bot system, in doing so I went from 100 coins to 0 twice, by failing to set proper destinations, I would lose 5-10 bot's at a time idiotically. But I sent out 20 bot's to smarter locations' had them come back around .55 coin and i slowly rebuilt my bank back up. You'll find the xy coordinates within gamemap.cpp at the bottom. BGB's release is a very minimalistic gather system, lacking in enemy detection/avoidance systems. But if you send your gatherers close to their base you should be fine. I've been doing quite well with yellow bot's, Red would probably be the safest base to gather at, but you'll be waiting a while for coin because of the mass ammount of characters in the coinspawns

But ive just set it and forget it man, it has done its duty for me,

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spokanebitcoinmine

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2014, 12:44:01 PM »
thank you for your help zyon means allot man many frustrated hours spent acomplishing nothing :P so many thanks to all your help

spokanebitcoinmine

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2014, 01:22:25 PM »
so after trying to play today i accidently killed a bgb and they tracked my whole team of guys and killed them all i think that is alittle extensive... i have noticed the extremely dramatic fall in price and have come to realize as a community for this coin we need to lighten up on the botting and make this game fun again the price has dropped so much due to over botting. the coin has no value when only a few people with intelligent bots get most of them ... everyone i have talked to has lost faith in the coin due to over botting so please as a community lets work together to help new comers make some coins without being raped for every coin they get by bots . No one is willing to pay for a coin that is monopolized so hopefully people will step back and look at what the overwhelming amount of bots has done to the price of this beautiful coin:( before its to late

Mithril Man

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2014, 02:39:18 PM »
I must say that in some way I agree, and that i tought to suggest stopping the coin being mined for a while, while fixing things, considering that at the moment very few people are playing and few peoples are gathering most of the coins leading to unfair distribution

maybe could have been an option, don't know what others things about it, maybe it's too late to stop

anyway bot won't be stopped, isn't possible and people have to play with and against but the more human player will play, the less the bot problem will be noticeable
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 02:40:50 PM by Mithril Man »
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BGB

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2014, 03:14:36 PM »
so after trying to play today i accidently killed a bgb and they tracked my whole team of guys and killed them all i think that is alittle extensive...

Hmmm I would be curious to look at this and see what was going on. What was the name of the teams that were hunted down and approximate location/block so I can look it up? With the decrease in generals and pending game updates I have all of my BGB bots set to wind down (they won't make new players once killed off.)

I am mostly curious to look this up because my bots aren't designed to "chase" like you mentioned. Once they determine that an intercept point is not capable in "X" amount of turns, they will ignore the target. If they are truly chasing, there is no near intercept point. Now if you stop within their targeted range, they might pick you up as a target again and give the appearance they are chasing. But once you start to move away, they will ignore you again.

Also the largest "unfair distribution" that happened lately was the center being controlled for so long. Looking back and seeing how easy it was to disrupt this I should have engaged sooner instead of trying to attack the spawn area. I assumed it would be a constant battle for the center area that at the time I didn't have time to engage in on my own on a daily basis.

My algorithm for taking control of the center area is still running. I didn't expect to hold the center through the weekend since I wouldn't be around for any counter attack, and left it running to at least hold some ground for a few hours. But there hasn't been any challenge to the center...

« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 03:30:29 PM by BGB »

Mithril Man

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2014, 03:56:49 PM »
i suspect that center area holders have left huntercoin, players are settled around half respect before (generals were around 13/14k some days ago, now 8k)

about your bot, last few days i fought sometimes vs your bot and i saw exactly what you are saying, after evading their tries to catch me, they stopped to chase me (but if i stopped my moves, they started again to follow)

from what i've seen so far, your (or at least some kind of) bots have different hotspot near harvesting areas, where you wait for player to go out of that area to bank coins, at that point, when an hunter reach a range (more or less 8 tiles range, haven't counted that) of your duo (because your bots are at least coupled) they start moving trying to intercept hunter path (i suppose you try to anticipate enemy hunters intersecting his path at least 3 or 4 blocks before him, so you take into account the time it takes to accept your tx and you can have your hunter placed on the path 2 tiles ahead)

yesterday i've noticed a constant flow of your bots going to bank on any corner an high amount of hucs (they where 3 or 4 packed team holding 15+ hucs each, sometimes more) so i suppose your bot bank thousand hucs a day!!

i managed to intercepted a couple of "trains" , and missed a copule because i was afk and one of the train passed over my "ambush point", and one becaise i anticipated too much my destruction (you saved an hunter that were holding 70hucs  :D) (giving the unpredictable block generation time, anticipating 1 block isn't always a good choice :/)

another thing i noticed, is that i tried to collect coins taking advantage of your duo team that entered in a bank area, but your hunter destroyed himself 1 block before the target point, don't know if it was by design or just because you send the destruct tx 1 block before the target point, and that block took so long to be generated, that you destroyed 1 block earlier but it ended up destroing some of my placed hunters, screwing up my attempt :D

Then i experienced some of your team, teamed up in a tile, like if they wanted to have a party lol

and about your duo teams, sometimes they include a general, is that because your team was left with 2 hunters and you didn't want to recycle? (at least they are worth a +1 huc :D)

( Playing the game those days, I've even more concerned about the future changes of prices  and team with only generals: it would even be easier for bots to destroy others, more range mean less chance to avoid them and i suppose your bots won't giveup in few moves at that point :/ )
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BGB

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Re: Responsible Botting...
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2014, 05:03:58 PM »
Quote
from what i've seen so far, your (or at least some kind of) bots have different hotspot near harvesting areas, where you wait for player to go out of that area to bank coins, at that point, when an hunter reach a range (more or less 8 tiles range, haven't counted that) of your duo (because your bots are at least coupled) they start moving trying to intercept hunter path (i suppose you try to anticipate enemy hunters intersecting his path at least 3 or 4 blocks before him, so you take into account the time it takes to accept your tx and you can have your hunter placed on the path 2 tiles ahead)

The duos have an assigned destination and then a range (radius) to hunt within. When they reach that range they start looking for targets that meet the criteria they are looking for (moving vs not moving, minimum tile value, minimum player value, etc...) Sometimes I set their range to as little as 15 and sometimes as great as 80 depending on what the game dynamics are.

Quote
yesterday i've noticed a constant flow of your bots going to bank on any corner an high amount of hucs (they where 3 or 4 packed team holding 15+ hucs each, sometimes more) so i suppose your bot bank thousand hucs a day!!

There is a train of red guys coming from the center (and sometimes blue). Since I can't babysit the center all day long, I chose to use 100s of players to carry small amounts of coins from the center to the base instead of a few players carrying large amounts of coin.

Quote
another thing i noticed, is that i tried to collect coins taking advantage of your duo team that entered in a bank area, but your hunter destroyed himself 1 block before the target point, don't know if it was by design or just because you send the destruct tx 1 block before the target point, and that block took so long to be generated, that you destroyed 1 block earlier but it ended up destroing some of my placed hunters, screwing up my attempt :D

I try to destruct one block ahead of time in order for the best possible chances for an extra move if its late. Even the hunters have a priority of picking up loot laying around instead of hunting characters, so if they get an adjacent target, their first priority is to pick up the loot.

Quote
Then i experienced some of your team, teamed up in a tile, like if they wanted to have a party lol

Sometimes that is laziness on my behalf from copying configuration files or duplicating the destinations. If there were more targets, they might not be piling up too. Or they could be stuck in pending jail. :)

Quote
and about your duo teams, sometimes they include a general, is that because your team was left with 2 hunters and you didn't want to recycle? (at least they are worth a +1 huc :D)

The duo hunters will use their general to hunt. With a three person team char 1 and char 2 hunt together. If they both get killed, then the general will recycle. If they are successful in hunting, then char 1 brings back coins, then hooks up with the general to hunt again. Then if general and char 1 are successful, the general will bring back the coins, then recycle himself.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 05:05:42 PM by BGB »